Rodrigo:

A lot of people are in pain, and this is because of unresolved trauma. This is impacting, you me. And many other people join me as I go deeper with Natalia Rachel on understanding Trauma, what are the consequences and what can we do in order to heal Trauma?

Natalia. Before we start, I have to tell you a little secret. I’ve been really excited about our conversation in the last few days. So welcome to the show.

 

Natalia:

Thank you for having me.

 

Rodrigo:

Good. So, I think a good place to start. Is to ask you what led you to work with Trauma. For me, it’s been a really personal Journey. So, I grew up amidst a lot of trauma, but back then, it was just my reality. I didn’t know that anything different was possible but the trauma that I experienced back then went on to inform the person I became. So, I was a rolling reaction to my trauma, it informs my personality, my physical body, and also my relational self, the way I showed up and perceived and expressed within relationships and unconsciously the personal, I became an amalgamation of coping and survival responses. And I was 17. I experienced a mental health, misdiagnosis and at age 24, I had the onset of this. Very strange physical illness that over 11 years, really ravaged, my body and took me to near death and I was searching and searching for ways to heal. But until I looked through the lens of trauma, I couldn’t really shift my experience. And when I did look at origins of trauma and learn how to heal, I created this wonderful life for myself. Where I can show up in ways that a peaceful and powerful and then I went on to study and work in the field and now my mission is to help. All of us. Understand how trauma might be decontextualizing inside us. and within our relationships and the world around us and develop strategies to heal and change and thrive.

 

Rodrigo:

Wow. What a journey. So, do you remember what were those moments where it was really significant for you? You that you…was like an Awakening that things are not okay, and I need to change. Do you remember that?

 

Natalia:

There were many moments of realizing that things weren’t. Okay. And that I needed to change, but I didn’t know what to do. I couldn’t find a route, but the moment that I understood that I needed to go back and heal. My trauma was a very specific moment, and it was actually in the midst of a session, with a doctor who was working on my physical body. And when we have unresolved trauma, we typically dissociated. So, it means we’re not really with or inside the body. We’re living outside it. It. And so what happened was this doctor who was not trauma-informed, actually plunge their hands into my stomach, they could sense I was holding onto something, but they didn’t know what. And in that moment, I actually regressed all the way back to being a seven-year-old girl and very severely abused and in that moment I was terrified. I was re-traumatized. I was not able to express what was going on. Certainly not to that doctor but when I went home, all of the memories, all of the emotions, all of the pain that I’ve been suppressing for 30-something years started to come out and this little voice inside my head said Natalia, this is what you’ve got to do, you’ve got to go back, and you’ve got to feel into all those difficult experiences from the past and you need to begin to let them live and breathe and release and transform. So, it was indeed both a very powerful moment, but also a very unsafe moment if I’m honest.

 

Rodrigo:

Yeah, but you are also It was what created an Awakening and help you to progress in your journey where you are today, right?

 

Natalia:

Absolutely.

 

Rodrigo:

So, I think maybe it’s good for everyone to be on the same page to understand like what? What is drama. What’s your definition of trauma?

 

Natalia:

Trauma is when a past experience of threat, that’s over living and breathing in ass now, and it can affect us, mentally, emotionally, physically, and relationally. It shows up as sensations, emotions and relating patterns. So, it’s typically unconscious nonverbal and felt. and it travels through relationships communities and cultures.

 

Rodrigo:

Wow. So today what is like the size of the problem in the world with drama? We are living in a very traumatized world. Most of us in our generation have some level of trauma, some of us are aware of it. And some of us are not and even if we believe that we don’t have drama, we are relating with somebody who does. So, it is a global human problem. If we are in relationship, trauma is for us to learn about.

 

Rodrigo:

What can be some of the symptoms that someone can feel related with trauma?

 

Natalia:

Trauma is very unique, and all decontextualize in very individual ways, depending on how we have suppressed the experiences and also our tendencies towards survival. So, some of the things we may experience, are unexplained anxiety, or feelings of depression, or apathy, or hopeless. Some people may have more of a physical manifestation, so they may be experiencing complex, health, issues that don’t have a clear physical route, and some people may experience it in a very relational context. So, getting triggered in relationships very easily and this may manifest as having emotional outbursts or actually shutting down and not being able to speak up and ask to have their needs met or to set boundaries. So, it will manifest across all three of those Dimensions. But usually there will be one dimension, that’s kind of speaking louder. So, all of these symptoms are our trauma saying, excuse me, listen to me, I need your help to heal and tell my story, but because the trauma manifests in this coded way, and across multiple Dimensions, it can often be very hard to spot and tune in, to and respond to.

 

Rodrigo:

Yeah. So, and how to spot it to learn to spot. Your trauma is Complex journey of learning. The very first thing I suggest to people who are interested in exploring how trauma shows up inside them or in the people in their lives, is to begin to understand their experience of safety or threat and the linking up or the joining of the past to the present. So, in order to do this, we’ve got to understand nervous system Basics. So, our nervous system is the governing system of our experience. And the question that it’s always He’s asking, is am I experiencing am? Am I experiencing danger or am I experiencing safety. And if the answers danger, the next thing that will happen is that it asks for, what do I need to do to increase my sense of safety? And what happens when we have unresolved trauma is that our wires are crossed. So, either we are always experiencing a sense of danger or threat. or we are recurrently triggered into experience of danger or threat. And so, once we begin to stand ourselves in this way. We can learn to ask ourselves in the present moment Am I experiencing danger or threat and if I am experiencing in that way, is that feeling valid or coming from the present or might be the past? Might something has triggered that experienced in the past? and just that inquiry opens and incredible doorway to healing and routing ourselves firmly in the present.

 

Rodrigo:

What can be a powerful question that people can ask themselves that can open that door, even if it’s a small door, what can be a powerful question?

 

Natalia:

It’s my feeling of danger or threat needed right now.

 

Rodrigo:

I really like that, if in case trauma is not healed, what can be the potential consequences of that?

 

Natalia:

Unresolved trauma will continue to decontextualize and the way that it did contextualizes becomes more diffuse and difficult to spot. So, we may experience that we have rolling mental, health symptoms. So, we might hear in our head, we might feel anxious. We might be dipping in high-low cycles or feeling really low. And it tends to get more complex as we go on or more chronic as we go on the same thing can happen in our body. So, it might start, for example, this was my story that there’s some physical pain or there’s some gut distress and over time the trauma leaks into more physical systems in the body, if it does, if it isn’t sort of addressed and healed. And the other thing that can happen is this, this repetitive moving towards disrespectful and harmful relationships. So, a typical relational manifestation will be constantly being in relationships where we’re not respected or where we’re not feeling like our needs are being met or where we feel we are being harmed. And so again, it’s that unconscious nervous system seeking everything that it’s trying to heal from. So, what happens when we have trauma is what I call “The trauma Paradox”. So, underneath all of our complex, survival responses, we are seeking safety, but when we are primed with threat inside us, we can’t find it. So, we just keep moving towards experiences of threat and dysfunction and exclusion because it’s all we know.

 

Rodrigo:

So, even though I’m feeling is a strong, I’m have strong feeling of what you are saying. Because I feel like it’s a huge problem today, and I’m curious now to understand and how does that manifest at the workplace.

 

Natalia:

Cultures are made up of people systems are made up of people. So, we, if we have a number of people coming together within a culture, or Community, or to develop a system that culture or that system will be the manifestation of complex trauma. And so, that’s what we’re seeing in many workplaces today. Particularly when we hear the word toxic, which is a word that I really dislike usually there is unresolved Trauma at play in the workplace, so it really is a big issue at work, we’re humans. So, at work, we’re no different. We are bringing our trauma to work.

 

Rodrigo:

And where do you think it’s where there’s the, the line between who’s responsible, is the companies responsible for the mental health of the employees? And where does it start that the employees are responsible for their own Mental Health?

 

Natalia:

This is such a complicated question. I think each organization. needs to inquire and figure out. Well, how much are we able to help? What are the boundaries of responsibility and what’s beyond it? And the next thing is to develop, very clear communication and policies that actually back that up, most organizations, haven’t done that. What we’re seeing. Now, in terms of mental health, at work, is this huge scramble to slap on poorly thought out? Mental health support systems. And if you think about it, if I guess the soil of the business and the structure of it has been grown with this underlying trauma just slapping on. You know, a few therapy sessions for employees or a few L&D sessions to talk about. Mental health isn’t actually going to change it and so what I would love to see happening in organizations is really going back to the beginning of organizational design and figuring out. How do we work in a support system for our people as part of business? Because essentially healing and mental health is the opposite of what business is all about. So, I think if we really want to make a change, we need to go back to the beginning. And that the image that I have in my mind is almost of a double helix. How do we create two systems, but fundamentally opposed each other and design something where they’re existing as an ecosystem. But most organizations aren’t going to do this because that is a lot of time. That is a lot of resource. That is a lot of money and It’s a lot of rethinking, what profit and purpose are all about.

 

Rodrigo:

So, in your conversations with leaders, where do you see leaders struggling the most in this topic?

 

Natalia:

I see, most leaders struggling to come back to the healing work, they need to do to embody and just set an example. So, if we’re telling everybody do, as I do not as I say, there’s always going to be disconnected and in organization. But for a leader to come back and do that is very vulnerable and as leaders were talk to be strong and put a brave face on and lead the way and so to counter everything that we’ve learned and come back and admit, oh, we’ve got a lot of healing work to do, that takes a lot of vulnerability and it takes a lot of courage and Most businesses are going through really hard times at the moment and so many leaders are trying to get their team through to other end and Soldier on- It is survival time! And healing actually asked us to come out of survival, and we can only do it when we have enough capacity and resources to give to it. If we don’t have that in our lives, we’re not going to be able to choose healing first.

 

Rodrigo:

So, what can organizations do in order to build that safe? Safe environment for people, not just to heal, but also to prevent trauma at the workplace. I think that awareness and education are a very big piece of the puzzle, but I also believe in community building and capacity, building. So, when I work and with organizations, all of this is done within group cohorts. So, we have to learn and evolve and heal and grow together. And so, when we create these little mini cocoons, mini healing cocoons within an organization. There’s a safe place of vulnerability. There’s a safe place from for body meant as a safe place to stand up and say, I need to be accountable and it’s that safety within a small group that then can expand as each person goes back into the organization and embodies what it means to not only be far, more self-compassionate, but far, more accountable for how we’re showing up so that blend of compassion and accountability is really important. And again, in the world we live in we’re very polarized, so we tend to go. only one way. So, I’m going to be very self-compassionate but therefore I can’t be compact, can’t be accountable of how I’m showing up or I’m going to be so accountable for the way I show up that I’m going to lose all compassion. So, we’ve got to hold the space for each other to learn that we can have both these things. And in fact, both these things are necessary for change to happen.

 

Rodrigo:

Hmm. And do you think the solution? Solutions, existing today are they adequate or to solve the problem?

 

Natalia:

I think so many solutions that are being offered when it comes to mental health at work and DEI at work. I really Band-Aids or coping mechanisms or even bypass mechanisms and I really believe in order to create systemic change. We need to go to the root, we need to unpack, all the way that trauma is showing up into contextualizing at work in the community and in the system, and then we need to come back. And slowly find new ways to be here. That are far more compassionate sustainable and collaborative, but this is New Territory, This is innovation.

 

Rodrigo:

And if we look at, we spoke about what companies can do. But what about an individual? If an individual is having the symptoms that you explain at, at the beginning, what are some of the steps that a person can do in order to start? Dealing with trauma.

 

Natalia:

The first thing we can do is to explore. As I mentioned earlier, our experience of threat versus safety and we can also develop a toolkit to increase our sense of safety. We can also learn how our particular complex trauma may be showing up in us and our Tendencies towards triggering. Whether that means to then harm others through our reactions or whether it’s to harm. Ourselves through our reactions. And, as we build capacity, as we build that safety inside us, we can learn to challenge all of the trauma born organizing principles that take us away from peace and Harmony because essentially that’s what we lose when we’re living and relating with unresolved trauma inside us.

 

Rodrigo:

And out of the, the experiences do you have, especially with companies, what breaks your heart?

 

Natalia:

The thing that breaks my heart the most Is seeing so many people who are craving for a place to be seen and heard and welcomed and supported seeing them re-traumatized by leaders or colleagues, who are actually well-meaning. But because they haven’t explored their own trauma or the way that their interactions can either heal or harm they’re really causing this re-traumatization and feelings of aloneness and exclusion and hopelessness so that breaks my heart every day and it empowers me or propels me to keep going with the work I do.

 

Rodrigo:

Yeah. And where are you in your personal journey with trauma.

 

Natalia:

I think I’ll always be healing but I think I’ve got to a place where my compassionate witness is so strong that I can hold space, for whatever comes up for me. I’m particularly still healing a lot of medical trauma that I went through and the fear that is often triggered around that. But I think when we get to a certain stage and I healing Journey, it becomes far more gentle and far more graceful. And I often say as long as we can be compassionate and welcoming of our experiences, we may still be healing from trauma, but we’re no longer traumatized.

 

Rodrigo:

I love that. I really love that. So, when you, when you look at the Future, what’s your hope for the future, your dream in this area?

 

Natalia:

I think that the conversation on trauma is a beginning point. It’s a doorway to reimagining humanity and what culture looks like? What systems look like; what business looks like. So, I would like to see that understanding trauma is a point of departure for everybody because when we understand the way the past has changed the way we’re perceiving expressing and relating Can be far more intelligent about how we interact with others and also, we can be far more intelligent with what we create. So, this is a beginning point and I think we will see over the next 20 to 30 years that understanding, how this past trauma, has shaped us is brought into all design-based conversations.

 

Rodrigo:

Wow, I think it’s such an important work to do in trauma and I think I would like to add to understand and how are you helping people to handle trauma?

 

Natalia:

The main thing that I’m focused on at the moment is education. So, whether that’s through writing and speaking or whether that’s through leadership programs, once we understand how trauma showing up inside us and how its manifesting relationally, culturally and systemically, we can begin to create pathways to change so I believe it’s my words and my presence that are the key thing that I’m bringing to this field.

 

Rodrigo:

Yeah. And I’m incredibly happy that we are having this conversation because this is also a starting conversation for many people at this, to start bringing more awareness about this important topic. Really, really nice. Now, we’re coming to the end, and I have one last question to you. So, people ask you a lot of questions but maybe what is one question that people don’t ask you and you would love to answer.

 

Natalia:

Most people don’t ask me why you are doing this. Why are you here? And I would answer that question by saying, back at the time when I was just lost stuck in the medical system and wondering why I couldn’t really feel, okay, in a corporate culture or in a relationship or anywhere, there was no information about trauma and there was nobody to help me unpack it and develop tools and strategies to heal. And so, I guess it’s very personal. I really Hope that I can be the person that was lacking for me for so many.

 

Rodrigo:

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. And I’m really happy that you were working in such an important topic, and I wish you all the best in this important mission that you have.

 

Natalia:

Thank you so much for inviting me to share on this topic.